tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192922.post8673838709883637189..comments2024-03-26T07:51:43.186+00:00Comments on Mabinogogiblog: War, like human sacrifice, is not inevitableDocRichardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08903964792092284406noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192922.post-15519472432526424022014-06-06T08:47:57.174+01:002014-06-06T08:47:57.174+01:00If you read Winston Churchill's first book abo...If you read Winston Churchill's first book about WW2, The Gathering Storm, there is an interesting anecdote.<br /><br />Churchill and Roosevelt were trying to decide on a name for the war. Churchill recounts how his initial response was that in should be called the Unnecessary War.<br /><br />Unnecessary because there were so many ways in which the rise of Germany from the ashes to military power could have been prevented. Not least of which was stopping British and American banks from lending him vast sums of money.<br /><br />As for Versailles, this from the BBC website:<br />"The Treaty of Versailles confiscated 10% of Germany's territory but left it the largest, richest nation in central Europe.<br /><br />It was largely unoccupied and financial reparations were linked to its ability to pay, which mostly went unenforced anyway.<br /><br />The treaty was notably less harsh than treaties that ended the 1870-71 Franco-Prussian War and World War Two. The German victors in the former annexed large chunks of two rich French provinces, part of France for between 200 and 300 years, and home to most of French iron ore production, as well as presenting France with a massive bill for immediate payment.<br /><br />After WW2 Germany was occupied, split up, its factory machinery smashed or stolen and millions of prisoners forced to stay with their captors and work as slave labourers. Germany lost all the territory it had gained after WW1 and another giant slice on top of that.<br /><br />Versailles was not harsh but was portrayed as such by Hitler, who sought to create a tidal wave of anti-Versailles sentiment on which he could then ride into power."<br /><br />That's a slightly different point of view than usual anyway.<br />Gavinhttp://gavhall.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192922.post-87123437849136003982010-03-27T00:21:53.276+00:002010-03-27T00:21:53.276+00:00I hope I would never ever be in that situation, bu...I hope I would never ever be in that situation, but the fact that some people did take up arms and defeat the Nazis is the reason we are debating this now. If they had been pacifists, we wouldn't. And the world would be very different.<br /><br />When push comes to shove, ordinary people can do some extraordinary things.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for reminding me of Nixon. It made me read this gem again, from Hunter Thompson: http://www.counterpunch.org/thompson02212005.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192922.post-4358186755372448522010-03-25T19:53:34.847+00:002010-03-25T19:53:34.847+00:00Quite a few American Quakers took up arms in WWII....Quite a few American Quakers took up arms in WWII. American Quakers are a bit odd, because as they went West, they tended to run our of ministers of religion, so they called in Quakers to lead their services. Nixon was a Quaker. <br /><br />The Quakers formed a Govt in an early American state (Pennsylvania?) but had to hand over to another party because a war started. <br /><br />So the Green Party is not pacifist. But we are very interested indeed in preventing war, hence the Index of Human Rights, Dealing with Dictators and Separatist proposals (the latter 2 are not yet official policy).<br /><br />I personally am a pacifist. Most people find it difficult to kill other human beings. A lot of soldiers in WWII used to shoot to miss. On purpose. <br /><br />Looking at all the wars we and the USA have participated in since 1946, it is difficult to justify most of them. Sierra Leone is judged a success in UN circles.<br /><br />Thanks for commenting.<br />RichardDocRichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08903964792092284406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192922.post-25608205604789142432010-03-25T18:44:33.307+00:002010-03-25T18:44:33.307+00:00I'm sorry. I misinterpreted it. I thought you ...I'm sorry. I misinterpreted it. I thought you were saying we should never take up arms. Of course, it should never get to that. <br /><br />But when it's got to the shovelling people into ovens stage, it's good to know the party isn't pacifist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192922.post-40780420643029369372010-03-25T18:14:38.628+00:002010-03-25T18:14:38.628+00:00Thanks Dave, you took the words right out of my fi...Thanks Dave, you took the words right out of my fingertips.<br /><br /><a href="http://http://greenerblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/dealing-with-dictators.html/" rel="nofollow">Dictators need to be reined in:</a> <a href="http://http://greenerblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/1-in-3-current-wars-are-separatist.html/" rel="nofollow"> and separatist wars need to be pre-empted. </a>DocRichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08903964792092284406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192922.post-69396540818277156302010-03-25T15:37:53.557+00:002010-03-25T15:37:53.557+00:00Here's what we should do about Hitler: stop ac...Here's what we should do about Hitler: stop acting like the causes of his rise to power can not be understood and could not be prevented.<br /><br />After WWI, the Allies imposed humiliating and punishing conditions on Germany. Long story short: Germans began listening to a man who said that Germans should be the ones humiliating and punishing other people.<br /><br />What we, and everyone, can do is recognize all the forces in our own societies that make us treat other people in a way we wouldn't like to be treated, and try to change them. Germans could have done it and stopped Hitler. French, British and American people could have done it earlier, and preempted the conditions that fueled Hitler's rise. Although we can't change the past, we can decide at any time to do what we can to break the cycle of violence.<br /><br />The Green Party has the right approach: remove the conditions that lead to war, and take an internationalist, pro-human rights, nonviolent (tho not necessarily pacifist) perspective.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15191765471206225563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192922.post-77026514164002985012010-03-24T21:59:10.063+00:002010-03-24T21:59:10.063+00:00What should 'we' have done about Hitler?What should 'we' have done about Hitler?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com